Episode 20 - Holly Prescott (Careers Advisor of Postgraduate Researchers at the University of Birmingham)

Welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast from the University of Exeter Doctoral College! The podcast about careers and all the opportunities available to you... beyond your research degree!  In this episode we talk to Dr. Holly Prescott, Careers Advisor of Postgraduate Researchers at the University of Birmingham!

Music from https://filmmusic.io ’Cheery Monday’ by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (https://creativecommons.org/licenses

 

Transcript

 

1

00:00:10,890 --> 00:00:23,630

Hello and welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast by the University of Exeter Doctoral College.

 

2

00:00:23,630 --> 00:00:27,020

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Beyond Your Research Degree.

 

3

00:00:27,020 --> 00:00:32,870

I'm your host, Kelly Preece, and in this episode, I'm going to be talking to one of my colleagues from the University of Birmingham.

 

4

00:00:32,870 --> 00:00:36,830

Dr. Holly Prescott, about her career beyond her research degree.

 

5

00:00:36,830 --> 00:00:49,100

Holly, are you happy to introduce yourself? Yeah, sure. So I'm Holly Prescott, and I did my Ph.D. at the University of Birmingham.

 

6

00:00:49,100 --> 00:00:54,800

I did it between 2008 and 2011. It's tough to get my head around.

 

7

00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:03,050

The fact that it's nearly 10 years since I finished my Ph.D. was a crossover between literature and cultural geography.

 

8

00:01:03,050 --> 00:01:14,200

So I was looking at the effective, and narrative agency of abandoned spaces in contemporary British fiction.

 

9

00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,200

And once I'd completed that.

 

10

00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:25,520

I felt like I'd taken research as far as I wanted to take it.

 

11

00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:34,760

And so from then, I forged a career in what we might call higher education professional services,

 

12

00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:43,780

and I'm currently the careers advisor for postgraduate researchers at the University of Birmingham.

 

13

00:01:43,780 --> 00:01:47,980

Amazing. I just want to pick up on a phrase that you use, though, which I thought was really interesting,

 

14

00:01:47,980 --> 00:01:52,630

which is that you came to the end of the PhD and you'd taken research as far as you wanted to take it.

 

15

00:01:52,630 --> 00:01:58,510

Can I ask you more about what you mean by that? Absolutely, yes.

 

16

00:01:58,510 --> 00:02:07,240

And I think what I mean by that would be in comparison to how I felt after I finished my master's degree.

 

17

00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:13,570

So I did, a taught MA and in literature and culture at the University of Lancaster.

 

18

00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:18,760

And I just got really into it, got really into my dissertation.

 

19

00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:26,050

And one of the main reasons I progressed to the Ph.D. was because after I've done that MA dissertation, I thought I'm not done yet.

 

20

00:02:26,050 --> 00:02:32,210

I felt like there was more mileage in the ideas and the research I was doing.

 

21

00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:34,000

So just to give you some context.

 

22

00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:46,570

My master's dissertation was looking at uh urban exploration photography and say where people go into abandoned buildings, take photographs,

 

23

00:02:46,570 --> 00:02:50,860

display them online and especially of maternity hospitals,

 

24

00:02:50,860 --> 00:03:00,370

and crossover between the online display of these images of these abandoned maternity hospitals and birth narratives.

 

25

00:03:00,370 --> 00:03:10,390

And and yeah, I felt like and the more I was reading, the more I was seeing abandoned hospitals,

 

26

00:03:10,390 --> 00:03:16,570

especially cropping up in and in novels that I was looking at.

 

27

00:03:16,570 --> 00:03:21,640

And so I think there's more I can get out of this.

 

28

00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:28,390

And and that was one of the main reasons I went on to do something I think kind of served

 

29

00:03:28,390 --> 00:03:38,320

me relatively well throughout the process was that I was treated like a fixed term job,

 

30

00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:45,880

if you like. I was very lucky and privileged to have funding from Research Council.

 

31

00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:51,150

But I, yeah, I treated. It really is kind of a fixed term job.

 

32

00:03:51,150 --> 00:04:00,780

And and when I was coming towards the end of it, where after my master's, I saw.

 

33

00:04:00,780 --> 00:04:06,470

I still feel like there's some mileage in these ideas, I want to keep going with the research.

 

34

00:04:06,470 --> 00:04:09,800

That sort of came to a natural end for me.

 

35

00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:20,540

And as I was going to say, it was actually in my second year, I really started to think I will probably do something different after this.

 

36

00:04:20,540 --> 00:04:29,150

And I started to, on a small scale, explore what that something different might be.

 

37

00:04:29,150 --> 00:04:33,410

Yeah, I think that's really interesting and just that kind of concept of the research

 

38

00:04:33,410 --> 00:04:39,130

coming to sort of this or your your motivation coming to the natural conclusion.

 

39

00:04:39,130 --> 00:04:48,780

And so when you kind of when your second year when you were starting to investigate what that might be, how how did you go about that?

 

40

00:04:48,780 --> 00:04:56,390

How did you go about the process of going? What else is there and what might what might be suitable for me?

 

41

00:04:56,390 --> 00:05:03,290

Hmm. I think it's important to point out that I don't think I did this completely consciously, right?

 

42

00:05:03,290 --> 00:05:09,590

I don't think this was a conscious, purposeful career planning process.

 

43

00:05:09,590 --> 00:05:19,250

I don't think my line is so difficult, isn't it, to put yourself back in the past situation, actually think what your line of thought was?

 

44

00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:27,670

But I don't think it was. Oh, I have to start career planning now, so I'm going to try some things and see what's right for me.

 

45

00:05:27,670 --> 00:05:33,100

It was much more and it was much more.

 

46

00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:37,430

I don't think I'm going to be continuing with research after this.

 

47

00:05:37,430 --> 00:05:47,420

So feeling like that gave me the freedom to dip my toe into a couple of other things and try some things out.

 

48

00:05:47,420 --> 00:05:53,030

And I think another big part of it was what I was naturally drawn to.

 

49

00:05:53,030 --> 00:05:59,420

I think what I ended up doing from second year onwards was following my interests a lot more.

 

50

00:05:59,420 --> 00:06:09,660

And so just to put that into some context, my interests ended up being things like teaching anything where I was in an advisory work,

 

51

00:06:09,660 --> 00:06:20,360

in an advisory capacity and anything where I was doing things like training or mentoring other people.

 

52

00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,600

And those were things that I was naturally drawn to.

 

53

00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:30,620

So that meant I picked up quite a bit of undergraduate teaching, some master's level teaching as well.

 

54

00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:39,050

And it meant that I worked as postgraduate student ambassador in the Post Graduate Recruitment Office.

 

55

00:06:39,050 --> 00:06:44,960

So helping organise post-grad open days, doing campus tours, things like that.

 

56

00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:53,630

And it was actually that part time role that led to my first full time job after the PhD as well.

 

57

00:06:53,630 --> 00:07:01,220

And then some of the things I did was I did a stand up comedy course, random, I know.

 

58

00:07:01,220 --> 00:07:12,500

And but that has been so useful and in my work now because I felt like if I could stand up in front of the lamp tavern in Dudley and tell jokes,

 

59

00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:16,790

I could probably cope with any audience and whatever was thrown at me in any job.

 

60

00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:20,330

So. And yeah, that that was what I did.

 

61

00:07:20,330 --> 00:07:30,380

I think it was that I became very aware quite quickly about what and what I was drawn towards what I wanted to do more of.

 

62

00:07:30,380 --> 00:07:33,800

So when I spotted opportunities like those,

 

63

00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:45,510

I took them and as much as I could and and it was doing that and especially the post-grad ambassador work, It ended up really showing me.

 

64

00:07:45,510 --> 00:07:57,170

How broad the range of. University based careers is and it started to spark thought in me as well,

 

65

00:07:57,170 --> 00:08:04,070

if I do still want to be student facing, I want to be teaching or advising students in some way.

 

66

00:08:04,070 --> 00:08:11,820

I still want to be in a university environment and I want to keep that feeling of being an expert in something

 

67

00:08:11,820 --> 00:08:19,220

some someone people come to and for for expertise in a certain area.

 

68

00:08:19,220 --> 00:08:30,820

That was when I started to realise there were other avenues that could give me that that weren't traditional academic research or teaching.

 

69

00:08:30,820 --> 00:08:39,670

Yeah. I think the things I'm really picking up on there is follow it following your interests and continuing to do the things that interests you,

 

70

00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:49,900

because they will they will lead you to kind of something that's more perhaps more fitting to interests and values,

 

71

00:08:49,900 --> 00:08:53,830

but also kind of getting involved with stuff.

 

72

00:08:53,830 --> 00:09:02,590

It raises your awareness, it raises your awareness of what other opportunities and what other options are available to you career wise.

 

73

00:09:02,590 --> 00:09:09,190

Because I think, you know, I I was an academic for seven years, six years, six years and,

 

74

00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:13,600

you know, until I decided I didn't want to do that anymore and start signing up for job alerts.

 

75

00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:20,080

Even working as an academic, I didn't really have a concept of the breadth of professional services and all of that you

 

76

00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:27,780

could do within a university that weren't being an academic and so important to do that.

 

77

00:09:27,780 --> 00:09:34,150

And can I can I give you another example Kelly just wanted to while pick that you've picked up?

 

78

00:09:34,150 --> 00:09:39,010

What I think was important there about, say, about following your interests.

 

79

00:09:39,010 --> 00:09:44,240

I think two points here. Number one, I was a bit naughty really, my PhD,

 

80

00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:55,960

because I would find myself regularly shirking my research to prepare teaching and and to see how I might do more open days and things like that.

 

81

00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,100

And at the time, I felt bad for that.

 

82

00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:04,960

But really, it was a very important message I was giving myself.

 

83

00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:13,810

I was sort of telling myself whre I drew My energy, but also another example of what you say about following your interests.

 

84

00:10:13,810 --> 00:10:18,370

So and a couple of years ago, and I think it's going on for about three years ago now,

 

85

00:10:18,370 --> 00:10:30,610

I was working with a PGR and she had a physics physical sciences background and and had done a really interdisciplinary PhD.

 

86

00:10:30,610 --> 00:10:35,320

And um, she had done a similar thing.

 

87

00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:40,840

So she knew very early on she was very interested in communication just in general,

 

88

00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:47,620

whether it was communication, science, communication, research, communication of ideas, whatever it was.

 

89

00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:56,410

So she decided to wherever there was a communication theme and she had time and the ability to explore that.

 

90

00:10:56,410 --> 00:11:04,060

She ended up doing some media training. She ended up getting involved in a podcast.

 

91

00:11:04,060 --> 00:11:14,650

She ended up making some videos about her research, and she just purely did that because that was where that was, where interest lay.

 

92

00:11:14,650 --> 00:11:21,500

She just really enjoyed those things. When she came to graduate through talking to a friend,

 

93

00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:33,740

she learnt about a role that was being advertised and it was in a microscope company and the job pretty much involved

 

94

00:11:33,740 --> 00:11:45,440

interviewing scientists to find out how they used this equipment and how they use the applications that this company created.

 

95

00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:53,420

And that's not even a job she would have known was a job. But by taking those opportunities doing those training she made,

 

96

00:11:53,420 --> 00:12:01,460

she accidentally made herself an ideal candidate for a job that suited her really well.

 

97

00:12:01,460 --> 00:12:10,010

But she didn't know it was a job, and I just love that as a career planning model, if you like the fact that it's not a plan.

 

98

00:12:10,010 --> 00:12:13,460

She didn't identify a type of job in eighth grade.

 

99

00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:23,510

She just developed herself in the ways that she was most interested, and it accidentally made her a great candidate for the job that suited her.

 

100

00:12:23,510 --> 00:12:31,610

And so I thought, Yeah, I really rate that as a strategy.

 

101

00:12:31,610 --> 00:12:41,680

Yeah, I think I think Kate Foster at Exeter has said that's called planned happenstance or something like it.

 

102

00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:46,060

It's a theory,

 

103

00:12:46,060 --> 00:12:56,880

and I think it is so important because I've I had a very similar experience in that I was involved in my national kind of subject area network dance

 

104

00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:05,050

HE and through that set up and a network for early career researchers because I was one of two early career researchers heavily involved in it.

 

105

00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:12,670

And and we didn't really know anyone at other institutions on each other, and we wanted to have that support system.

 

106

00:13:12,670 --> 00:13:13,240

And actually,

 

107

00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:20,380

that was a huge thing when I applied for the role that I'm in now as a researcher development manager that worked in my favour because actually,

 

108

00:13:20,380 --> 00:13:31,000

that's the kind of stuff that my role now is doing. And it was a really cool experience and the fit directly into the work that I'm doing now.

 

109

00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,200

But it was kind of a a a side hustle kind of.

 

110

00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:43,780

I just want to do this and like you, something I was taking taking time out with my quote unquote day job to do.

 

111

00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:50,500

And I think lots of us do that. And I really like how you're talking about the importance of acknowledging and

 

112

00:13:50,500 --> 00:14:00,100

reflecting on those instincts and those pathways and those things that you're drawn to.

 

113

00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:07,510

I think it's like any aspect of life, whether it's, you know, whether it's academic,

 

114

00:14:07,510 --> 00:14:13,720

professional relationship, family links, if you keep doing something,

 

115

00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,140

if you keep being drawn to a pattern of behaviour,

 

116

00:14:17,140 --> 00:14:26,020

you're being drawn to that pattern of behaviour for a reason and uncovering those reasons can unlock a lot of nuggets for you.

 

117

00:14:26,020 --> 00:14:33,300

I think. Yeah, it can. You know, it really ties into all of that stuff that we talk about in our respective roles,

 

118

00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:39,050

about kind of self-awareness and reflecting on your values and all of that.

 

119

00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:46,710

I like you. I've always done that kind of unconsciously, I guess, and through my career.

 

120

00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:51,420

But actually, you put yourself ahead of the game if you actually engage with all of those processes and all of those

 

121

00:14:51,420 --> 00:14:59,790

resources because you learn about yourself and what you're drawn to and what interests and excites you.

 

122

00:14:59,790 --> 00:15:08,880

And that can kind of step ahead to thinking about, Okay, so where where does this fit, you know, career wise, sector wise?

 

123

00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:17,040

And I think that reflection can also perhaps save you some stress in the long run,

 

124

00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,660

because especially when we're talking about postgraduate researchers,

 

125

00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:31,380

you know, I really appreciate that not everybody has the time, exactly space to just say yes to these extra things.

 

126

00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:34,060

So I think it's a balance.

 

127

00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:45,330

And if you are someone who is juggling your postgraduate research with a hefty pile of other responsibilities and challenges,

 

128

00:15:45,330 --> 00:15:58,550

and the more you can do to to to be very strategic and in the few opportunities that you do take.

 

129

00:15:58,550 --> 00:16:03,950

The better, so you don't feel the pressure to have to say yes to all of these things,

 

130

00:16:03,950 --> 00:16:13,760

but you're just investing in the few things that are going to develop you in the line of how you think you want to develop.

 

131

00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:22,490

This is why I, you know, I I do think career planning is very outdated in terms of deciding you want to

 

132

00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:27,740

be something and then planning in a very linear way to actualise that plan.

 

133

00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:36,440

I think jobs, if jobs are being born and dying, a rate that is too fast for that to be an effective strategy anymore.

 

134

00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:43,880

And what I do think is that if you just have some idea about how you want your doctoral

 

135

00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:52,490

experience to develop and to use that to be strategic in the things you say yes and no to,

 

136

00:16:52,490 --> 00:17:03,500

that can save you. I think some conflict and some stress to to grant yourself the permission to say no to things that don't fall within that.

 

137

00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:08,660

Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah,

 

138

00:17:08,660 --> 00:17:15,830

I'm really interested about what you said about this kind of career management career planning thing being being outdated because

 

139

00:17:15,830 --> 00:17:25,100

I my experience is that kind of I came to this knowledge area kind of after I'd made some quite dramatic decisions in my career.

 

140

00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:31,490

It's going to stop being an academic and actually looking at it helped me contextualise the decisions that I've made,

 

141

00:17:31,490 --> 00:17:35,000

but I'm not sure if I'd have someone to put the career management cycle in front of me.

 

142

00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,120

I'd necessarily have still made those decisions.

 

143

00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:47,620

But on reflection, help me understand that I was actually following my, my values and my interests and my mind.

 

144

00:17:47,620 --> 00:17:55,010

And so can you tell us a bit more about what you're doing now and how that kind of fits in

 

145

00:17:55,010 --> 00:18:00,140

with kind of you following those interests and those passions during your research degree?

 

146

00:18:00,140 --> 00:18:02,900

Yeah, definitely so.

 

147

00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:16,700

And so as well as my day job being the careers advisor post graduate research, going to University of Birmingham, I keep a Ph.D. careers blog.

 

148

00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:24,980

It's called Post Gradual and its phd-careers.co.uk to give a shameless plug.

 

149

00:18:24,980 --> 00:18:29,240

And and in our own blog.

 

150

00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:38,520

And I. Talk quite a bit about a thought experiment that I'm quite a fan of.

 

151

00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:49,770

And it really is a it is me putting into words something that I was doing unconsciously through this process of what led me to what I do now.

 

152

00:18:49,770 --> 00:19:03,790

So. Obviously, what I do now is I support postgraduate researchers with that and career development who will take their next steps.

 

153

00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:11,880

But it's taken me a while to come around to this and it's taken me a while to realise that this was.

 

154

00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:19,830

And this role was dealing with the problems in the world that I wanted to solve.

 

155

00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:30,510

But what I feel like I have done and this is something I encourage other people to do is say from coming out of the PhD into the first role I was in

 

156

00:19:30,510 --> 00:19:37,000

which was working in postgraduate student recruitment. There were things about that I really enjoyed.

 

157

00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:46,500

So the first thing to say was. And having done part time work with them during my PhD, gave me an easy in right.

 

158

00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:53,740

That was an easy step sideways into doing some work because it was academic.

 

159

00:19:53,740 --> 00:19:58,110

adjacent if you like. I knew the team I'd worked with before.

 

160

00:19:58,110 --> 00:20:08,190

And so that gave me a nice Segway into my first proper job after the Ph.D. as I was going through that job.

 

161

00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:24,060

I started to more consciously think about what were the bits of it that motivated me the most, and it was anything where I was advising people.

 

162

00:20:24,060 --> 00:20:29,400

It was anything where prospective students were coming to me as an expert,

 

163

00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,980

as somebody who could be a postgraduate and wanting to ask questions about the experience,

 

164

00:20:34,980 --> 00:20:40,350

the application process, being hungry for information, and I was the one that could give it to them.

 

165

00:20:40,350 --> 00:20:43,170

I really liked being in that situation,

 

166

00:20:43,170 --> 00:20:50,970

and I really enjoyed being the person who made people feel more confident and more reassured with taking the next steps.

 

167

00:20:50,970 --> 00:21:00,090

Those were things that really lit me up, but the bits of it I wasn't so enamoured with were only being able to promote one opportunity to them,

 

168

00:21:00,090 --> 00:21:06,930

which was postgraduate study and and and the kind of salesy aspect of the role.

 

169

00:21:06,930 --> 00:21:12,510

I quickly realised that the conversations I wanted to be having with these people were more

 

170

00:21:12,510 --> 00:21:19,920

impartial and conversations about what would really be right for them in the next steps.

 

171

00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:28,020

So what I was doing here semiconsciously, I was asking myself if I was going to turn my current job into my ideal job.

 

172

00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:33,660

What bits of it, what I want to keep? What aspects of it would I want to lose?

 

173

00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:40,950

And what kinds of activities or things might I want to add to it that I'm not doing at the moment

 

174

00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:46,320

And I think I was doing that throughout the PhD as well. I just didn't realise it.

 

175

00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,510

I think when I was going through the PhD, I was thinking,

 

176

00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:58,530

I want to keep working in a university environment to keep this advisory, teaching and authority kind of figure.

 

177

00:21:58,530 --> 00:22:07,860

But I wanted to lose working on my own a lot, and I wanted to add more contact with a broader range of people in my work,

 

178

00:22:07,860 --> 00:22:12,000

and I wanted to add a bit more kind of work life separation.

 

179

00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:22,130

And so I guess what led me from the Ph.D. to where I am now is this iterative process of each role I took.

 

180

00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:27,090

Keep asking myself, What do I want to keep, what I want to lose, what I want to add?

 

181

00:22:27,090 --> 00:22:32,670

And it says that that actually led me to undertake a professional qualification in career

 

182

00:22:32,670 --> 00:22:41,670

guidance and take a sideways move to do a secondment and into the careers service,

 

183

00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:50,520

which is how I got it originally. And that was originally a six month secondment, and I ended up establishing a permanent role.

 

184

00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:59,940

And then once I was in that again asking myself those questions, what do I want to add, specifically working with researchers?

 

185

00:22:59,940 --> 00:23:08,460

So so far, I feel like my career has been this iterative process of keep asking myself these three questions Why don't you keep what I want to lose?

 

186

00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:16,710

What do I want to add? And I think I will always be doing that. And throughout my career, and it's something I would really encourage people,

 

187

00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:22,500

especially post-grad researchers, to to think about and to bring into their consciousness,

 

188

00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:32,430

because I think too often we can fixate on the idea that we have to solve our entire lives with our first post job, right?

 

189

00:23:32,430 --> 00:23:38,880

Especially if we're going to be jumping out of academia into something else, we can think, Well,

 

190

00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:46,800

what if I don't like it or if the job is terrible, etc. You're not trying to solve your whole life with your next job.

 

191

00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:53,910

You're just trying to take the next step in this iterative process. You're just trying to think, What do I want to add next?

 

192

00:23:53,910 --> 00:24:05,100

What do I want to lose next? And I'm making very small incremental changes towards something that ticks more boxes

 

193

00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:11,510

I hope that answered the question, that's my best way of describing the process that I've gone.

 

194

00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:22,370

through from PhD to where I am now, it has and I think it's hit on a really, really and insightful bit of advice,

 

195

00:24:22,370 --> 00:24:31,490

which is the thing about not, you know, you're not solving your whole life, you're not kind of committing to something forever

 

196

00:24:31,490 --> 00:24:36,260

I think that's that's such an important point to make because actually, you know,

 

197

00:24:36,260 --> 00:24:44,390

careers evolve over time and you know, you discover you discover interests that you didn't necessarily know you had.

 

198

00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:50,840

I mean, through doing some of the kind of community based work with PGRs I have become really interested in equality and diversity,

 

199

00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:58,850

and I'm actually going on secondment shortly to do a role looking at inclusive research and research ultures, you know?

 

200

00:24:58,850 --> 00:25:05,930

That's when I was an academic. I would never have imagined that I would taken,

 

201

00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:14,210

but it's something that's evolved throughout the process of doing different roles and engaging with different PGR communities.

 

202

00:25:14,210 --> 00:25:22,260

And so I think what you're saying is really crucial because. We discover new things our interests change over time.

 

203

00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:26,840

Now, you know that none of these things are static, so thinking about that first,

 

204

00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:34,790

your post is a kind of deciding what you will be doing forever is deciding kind of what what the next step is.

 

205

00:25:34,790 --> 00:25:39,320

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know I didn't.

 

206

00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:50,960

I didn't think straight out of my PhD dying to be a careers advisor, and I'd only mean that kind of partially, irreverently.

 

207

00:25:50,960 --> 00:26:00,140

Yeah, but it's it's like it's as if I was going through in my first couple post jobs capturing these breadcrumbs that

 

208

00:26:00,140 --> 00:26:09,730

were giving me clues as to that was what was going to to help me make people feel the way I wanted them to feel,

 

209

00:26:09,730 --> 00:26:16,700

the way I wanted to support people and to working with the groups of people that I wanted to make a difference to.

 

210

00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:24,350

Thanks so much to Holly for taking the time to speak to me and for giving us some really fantastic insight about following your interests,

 

211

00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:27,290

your values, using your intuition,

 

212

00:26:27,290 --> 00:26:36,800

but also fundamentally not seeing that first job post research degree as it as the culmination or the the end point of your career.

 

213

00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:47,210

Actually, it's about finding something that's interesting and gathering those breadcrumbs, as Holly said, to find the right thing for you.

 

214

00:26:47,210 --> 00:27:03,066

And that's it for this episode. Join us next time when we'll be talking to another researcher about their career beyond their research degree.